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	<title>The Wisdom of Patients ReportComments on: --</title>
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	<description>because health professionals can&#039;t do it alone</description>
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		<title>By: Leonor Brener</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html/comment-page-1#comment-51294</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonor Brener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.9.147.40/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html#comment-51294</guid>
		<description>[..] A bit unrelated, but I totally liked this webpage post [..]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[..] A bit unrelated, but I totally liked this webpage post [..]</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Sarasohn-Kahn</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html/comment-page-1#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Sarasohn-Kahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 09:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.9.147.40/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html#comment-237</guid>
		<description>John, Gilles, all, Thank you for hosting this rich discussion on my paper, The Wisdom of Patients. I certainly did not intend in the paper to marginalize the importance of social support for health online. I have personally benefited from groups online as both patient and caregiver, and will continue to do so...as will legions of other people around the globe. I believe as mobile platforms continue to be adopted and applications created (from iPhones to new-and-improved cel phones that, as Susannah Fox recently said, young people can use like Swiss Army knives) the potential for health support is unending. My point wasn&#039;t to dismiss social support, but to recognize that the technologies enabling social media allow people share information on clinical issues and aggregate beyond small groups and anecdotes. This doesn&#039;t take away from emotional support -- it adds to the larger community benefit. Gilles&#039; point about demonstrating the effectiveness of email-mediated medical communities is a good one. I look forward to learning more. JSK
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, Gilles, all, Thank you for hosting this rich discussion on my paper, The Wisdom of Patients. I certainly did not intend in the paper to marginalize the importance of social support for health online. I have personally benefited from groups online as both patient and caregiver, and will continue to do so&#8230;as will legions of other people around the globe. I believe as mobile platforms continue to be adopted and applications created (from iPhones to new-and-improved cel phones that, as Susannah Fox recently said, young people can use like Swiss Army knives) the potential for health support is unending. My point wasn&#8217;t to dismiss social support, but to recognize that the technologies enabling social media allow people share information on clinical issues and aggregate beyond small groups and anecdotes. This doesn&#8217;t take away from emotional support &#8212; it adds to the larger community benefit. Gilles&#8217; point about demonstrating the effectiveness of email-mediated medical communities is a good one. I look forward to learning more. JSK</p>
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		<title>By: Susannah Fox</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html/comment-page-1#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Susannah Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.9.147.40/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html#comment-236</guid>
		<description>Since Gilles brought up Clay Shirky, I can&#039;t resist quoting from the conclusion of his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.herecomeseverybody.org/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent post&lt;/a&gt; titled &quot;Gin, Television, and Social Surplus&quot;:
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
I was having dinner with a group of friends about a month ago, and one of them was talking about sitting with his four-year-old daughter watching a DVD. And in the middle of the movie, apropos nothing, she jumps up off the couch and runs around behind the screen. That seems like a cute moment. Maybe she&#039;s going back there to see if Dora is really back there or whatever. But that wasn&#039;t what she was doing. She started rooting around in the cables. And her dad said, &quot;What you doing?&quot; And she stuck her head out from behind the screen and said, &quot;Looking for the mouse.&quot;
&lt;p&gt;
Here&#039;s something four-year-olds know: A screen that ships without a mouse ships broken. Here&#039;s something four-year-olds know: Media that&#039;s targeted at you but doesn&#039;t include you may not be worth sitting still for. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
The other snippet of media that&#039;s worth your time is this Deloitte podcast (ignore the narratrice&#039;s intro -- the actual researchers are genuine &amp; full of insights):
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%253D203518,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Embracing Disruption: How Consumers Are Transforming the U.S. Health Care System&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Gilles brought up Clay Shirky, I can&#8217;t resist quoting from the conclusion of his <a href="http://www.herecomeseverybody.org/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html" rel="nofollow">recent post</a> titled &#8220;Gin, Television, and Social Surplus&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>
I was having dinner with a group of friends about a month ago, and one of them was talking about sitting with his four-year-old daughter watching a DVD. And in the middle of the movie, apropos nothing, she jumps up off the couch and runs around behind the screen. That seems like a cute moment. Maybe she&#8217;s going back there to see if Dora is really back there or whatever. But that wasn&#8217;t what she was doing. She started rooting around in the cables. And her dad said, &#8220;What you doing?&#8221; And she stuck her head out from behind the screen and said, &#8220;Looking for the mouse.&#8221;</p>
<p>
Here&#8217;s something four-year-olds know: A screen that ships without a mouse ships broken. Here&#8217;s something four-year-olds know: Media that&#8217;s targeted at you but doesn&#8217;t include you may not be worth sitting still for. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>
The other snippet of media that&#8217;s worth your time is this Deloitte podcast (ignore the narratrice&#8217;s intro &#8212; the actual researchers are genuine &#038; full of insights):
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,cid%253D203518,00.html" rel="nofollow">Embracing Disruption: How Consumers Are Transforming the U.S. Health Care System</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gilles Frydman</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html/comment-page-1#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilles Frydman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.9.147.40/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html#comment-235</guid>
		<description>The idea that valuable and often life saving information exchange requires to be web mediated is probably the biggest mistake currently made by many of the strongest proponents of the Health 2.0 concept.

There remains only one universal internet-based application and it is not web-based. Email remains the only way anyone can communicate easily via the internet. All the smartphones can now deal with it in simple and usable ways, unlike the still-clunky mobile web-browsers and their inability to universally render a given web page.

All of this explains why we have constantly tested many very exciting web-based services over the last 15 years and have consistently decided that ACOR remains firmly email based. I am sure that in the future we will add many mashups and innovative  services to our offerings but they will not replace the practicality and universality of email -mediated exchanges.

We are proud to use the simplest technology to help patients become educated and empowered. As Clay Shirky so rightly says: &quot;Communications tools don&#039;t get socially interesting until they get technologically boring.&quot; Just remember that email was revolutionary and deemed a modern gadget just a few years ago. Like the telephone before: &quot;The telephone is little better than a toy, it amazes ignorant people for a moment but it is inferior to the well-established system of airtubes.&quot; Saturday Review, 1878.

We also consistently notice that the quality of exchanges taking places through many of the ACOR email communities seem to be at a far higher health literacy level than what can be found in many web-based social networks. Of course there is the famous exception, the patientslikeme.com communities, where the health literacy level is very impressive. But there is a lack of validated data to confirm what we, the people managing email-mediated medical communities for 15 years, know to be true. Maybe we should do a better job at explaining the depth of the knowledge present in many of them.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that valuable and often life saving information exchange requires to be web mediated is probably the biggest mistake currently made by many of the strongest proponents of the Health 2.0 concept.</p>
<p>There remains only one universal internet-based application and it is not web-based. Email remains the only way anyone can communicate easily via the internet. All the smartphones can now deal with it in simple and usable ways, unlike the still-clunky mobile web-browsers and their inability to universally render a given web page.</p>
<p>All of this explains why we have constantly tested many very exciting web-based services over the last 15 years and have consistently decided that ACOR remains firmly email based. I am sure that in the future we will add many mashups and innovative  services to our offerings but they will not replace the practicality and universality of email -mediated exchanges.</p>
<p>We are proud to use the simplest technology to help patients become educated and empowered. As Clay Shirky so rightly says: &#8220;Communications tools don&#8217;t get socially interesting until they get technologically boring.&#8221; Just remember that email was revolutionary and deemed a modern gadget just a few years ago. Like the telephone before: &#8220;The telephone is little better than a toy, it amazes ignorant people for a moment but it is inferior to the well-established system of airtubes.&#8221; Saturday Review, 1878.</p>
<p>We also consistently notice that the quality of exchanges taking places through many of the ACOR email communities seem to be at a far higher health literacy level than what can be found in many web-based social networks. Of course there is the famous exception, the patientslikeme.com communities, where the health literacy level is very impressive. But there is a lack of validated data to confirm what we, the people managing email-mediated medical communities for 15 years, know to be true. Maybe we should do a better job at explaining the depth of the knowledge present in many of them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: e-Patient Dave</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html/comment-page-1#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>e-Patient Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://72.9.147.40/archives/2008/04/the-wisdom-of-patients-report.html#comment-234</guid>
		<description>John, your posts this month are forcing me to slow down and be more reflective. That&#039;s tough in the blogosphere, where there is SO much to visit. But I think you&#039;re right about the risk that flinging buzzwords leads the crowds (consumers and meta-consumers) to overlook what else is going on that isn&#039;t named in the buzzwords.

From my experience you&#039;re certainly right about the value of having a support community. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.e-patients.net/archives/2008/02/friends_family.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Feb 19 post&lt;/a&gt; about friends, family and surgical outcomes illustrates it too.

I suspect, too, that this is a big part of the value of having continuous care from a primary physician we feel we can depend on.

I wonder if we can evolve a model (a diagram of some sort) showing the aspects we see: the collective wisdom part (fostered by broad access to others&#039; experiences, via the read/write web), the documented value of connectedness, the (documentable?) value of feeling we have access to our physicians outside of the appointment room.

But I&#039;m not so sure about your suggestion that developments like going mobile being just same-old same-old.  Sure, in the world of Web 2.0, that&#039;s routine - but health IT is positively *crusty* compared to modern uses of the web.  That will eventually change, but from what I see, the vast majority of (for instance) patient interfaces are far from being accessible by mobile.

Good post - provocative, as they say.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, your posts this month are forcing me to slow down and be more reflective. That&#8217;s tough in the blogosphere, where there is SO much to visit. But I think you&#8217;re right about the risk that flinging buzzwords leads the crowds (consumers and meta-consumers) to overlook what else is going on that isn&#8217;t named in the buzzwords.</p>
<p>From my experience you&#8217;re certainly right about the value of having a support community. The <a href="http://www.e-patients.net/archives/2008/02/friends_family.html" rel="nofollow">Feb 19 post</a> about friends, family and surgical outcomes illustrates it too.</p>
<p>I suspect, too, that this is a big part of the value of having continuous care from a primary physician we feel we can depend on.</p>
<p>I wonder if we can evolve a model (a diagram of some sort) showing the aspects we see: the collective wisdom part (fostered by broad access to others&#8217; experiences, via the read/write web), the documented value of connectedness, the (documentable?) value of feeling we have access to our physicians outside of the appointment room.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not so sure about your suggestion that developments like going mobile being just same-old same-old.  Sure, in the world of Web 2.0, that&#8217;s routine &#8211; but health IT is positively *crusty* compared to modern uses of the web.  That will eventually change, but from what I see, the vast majority of (for instance) patient interfaces are far from being accessible by mobile.</p>
<p>Good post &#8211; provocative, as they say.</p>
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