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	<title>Physicians as coaches, part 2: &#8220;Embrace knowledge symmetry&#8221;Comments on: --</title>
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	<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html</link>
	<description>because health professionals can&#039;t do it alone</description>
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		<title>By: Guest post on The Ideal Doctor/Patient Relationship (Kent Bottles, MD) &#124; e-Patients.net</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-46503</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest post on The Ideal Doctor/Patient Relationship (Kent Bottles, MD) &#124; e-Patients.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 04:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-46503</guid>
		<description>[...] of a gun, he&#8217;s writing about a book Patient, Heal Thyself that was the subject of a post here in January. The book takes a controversial position, going to the core of who&#8217;s responsible [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of a gun, he&#8217;s writing about a book Patient, Heal Thyself that was the subject of a post here in January. The book takes a controversial position, going to the core of who&#8217;s responsible [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ePatientDave</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-50206</link>
		<dc:creator>ePatientDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-50206</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;All ye who wrangle with terms &quot;compliance,&quot; &quot;adherence&quot;etc, please read my 1/09 post http://is.gd/1IQT1.  (Cont&#039;d...)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">All ye who wrangle with terms &quot;compliance,&quot; &quot;adherence&quot;etc, please read my 1/09 post <a href="http://is.gd/1IQT1" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/1IQT1</a>.  (Cont&#8217;d&#8230;)</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: ePatientDave</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-50207</link>
		<dc:creator>ePatientDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-50207</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Thanks, @KentBottles. My post about a review of the book in NEJM, last January: http://is.gd/1H2b3. Complex.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Thanks, @KentBottles. My post about a review of the book in NEJM, last January: <a href="http://is.gd/1H2b3" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/1H2b3</a>. Complex.</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: ePatientDave</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-50208</link>
		<dc:creator>ePatientDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 14:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-50208</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;@hjluks http://is.gd/ejQh, http://is.gd/f3Hs. Very important. Physician can advise (coach), but WE are on the field.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">@hjluks <a href="http://is.gd/ejQh" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/ejQh</a>, <a href="http://is.gd/f3Hs" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/f3Hs</a>. Very important. Physician can advise (coach), but WE are on the field.</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: AHRQ embraces Participatory Medicine.The President? Not So Much! &#124; e-Patients.net</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-22256</link>
		<dc:creator>AHRQ embraces Participatory Medicine.The President? Not So Much! &#124; e-Patients.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 11:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-22256</guid>
		<description>[...] suffering from rare diseases this model works only when both the patients and the doctors &#8220;embrace knowledge symmetry&#8221; as Danny Sands told the audience at the 2008 Connected Health Symposium.  Gilles Frydman is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] suffering from rare diseases this model works only when both the patients and the doctors &#8220;embrace knowledge symmetry&#8221; as Danny Sands told the audience at the 2008 Connected Health Symposium.  Gilles Frydman is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kirsti</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-4886</link>
		<dc:creator>kirsti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-4886</guid>
		<description>WOW!! Was I sleeping when you all wrote these comments?? Great blog and great comments. I agree wholeheartedly - good communication = good medicine; let&#039;s have knowledge symmetry (and I would argue also for knowledge diversity); let&#039;s move medicine away from its scientist face or at least bring its human face back into the picture and the golden rule of collaboration. Moreover I would argue, based in relationship centered care that this communication, knowledge symmetry, collaboration and human face should extend beyond the patient-provider relationship to the peer relationships and the relationships everyone has in their community. That is where the e-patient will take us in the end, to a community of knowers and hopefully, agents for better health and better care! Bravo to you all! Now if we could just feed that message back into med schools........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WOW!! Was I sleeping when you all wrote these comments?? Great blog and great comments. I agree wholeheartedly &#8211; good communication = good medicine; let&#8217;s have knowledge symmetry (and I would argue also for knowledge diversity); let&#8217;s move medicine away from its scientist face or at least bring its human face back into the picture and the golden rule of collaboration. Moreover I would argue, based in relationship centered care that this communication, knowledge symmetry, collaboration and human face should extend beyond the patient-provider relationship to the peer relationships and the relationships everyone has in their community. That is where the e-patient will take us in the end, to a community of knowers and hopefully, agents for better health and better care! Bravo to you all! Now if we could just feed that message back into med schools&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Gray</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-4827</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-4827</guid>
		<description>The possible meanings of patients &quot;taking charge&quot; are varied and deserve some attention:

1. &quot;OK, go ahead, take charge&quot; (if you think you can, and Internet sources can supplant physician expertise) (*no patient can match the expertise of a physician, nor can any Internet source).  This seems like a deliberate misunderstanding of PM.

2. take charge because the health care system is broken; you have no choice.  This is practically true where I live, and for my demographic;

3. go ahead, take charge, it absolves us of legal liability

The best meaning is &quot;take charge, enter into a fully responsible and educated partnership with your physician; see what we can accomplish together.&quot;  

There is a flip side to participatory medicine, reflected in physicians&#039; dominant view of patients.  &quot;I am tired of doing so much for your health, when you do so little.&quot;  

This must necessarily be a valid part of PM: 
Implied and stated here is a Call to Patients to Step Up:  If you want your physician&#039;s respect, if you want to be healthy rather than assured that you are &quot;ok&quot; when you are not, YOU, the PATIENT, has to change, too.  

Docs on The Health Care Blog are bitter about sharing records with patients because 1) there is no profit in it; and 2) their experience of patients (which they perpetuate through their own Dr. Knows All protocol) is that patients are passive, uneducated and self indulgent. 

As a teacher, I often feel the same way:  Why should I put more energy into a student than the student or family does themselves?    

The good news:  From my end, I can encourage a new generation of students to invest in literacy in order to save their own lives and those of their loved ones.  Here, they will have no choice.  The American health care system is broken and will not be fixed in the near future.  In our area, which has a dearth of specialists as well as pcps, if you don&#039;t get educated, you can die.  

Participatory Medicine means that BOTH SIDES CHANGE.  I teach in a distressed economic area where kids&#039; main snacks at school remain Cheetos &amp; Coke, despite all of the health care warnings plastered everywhere (at taxpayer expense) about the risks of childhood obesity.

GOOD COMMUNICATION IS GOOD MEDICINE

One solution is for physicians to come out from behind the professional aura of Rational, Emotionless Scientist.  Find a site to Express frustrations in a way that their patients can HEAR.  Instead, patients often get the body language, the curt attitude, etc. that implies rather than states that they are less than nothing and the unspoken thought: &quot;Why should I hand over test reports if you are too lazy or uneducated to decipher them on your own?  Take the pill and leave.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The possible meanings of patients &#8220;taking charge&#8221; are varied and deserve some attention:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;OK, go ahead, take charge&#8221; (if you think you can, and Internet sources can supplant physician expertise) (*no patient can match the expertise of a physician, nor can any Internet source).  This seems like a deliberate misunderstanding of PM.</p>
<p>2. take charge because the health care system is broken; you have no choice.  This is practically true where I live, and for my demographic;</p>
<p>3. go ahead, take charge, it absolves us of legal liability</p>
<p>The best meaning is &#8220;take charge, enter into a fully responsible and educated partnership with your physician; see what we can accomplish together.&#8221;  </p>
<p>There is a flip side to participatory medicine, reflected in physicians&#8217; dominant view of patients.  &#8220;I am tired of doing so much for your health, when you do so little.&#8221;  </p>
<p>This must necessarily be a valid part of PM:<br />
Implied and stated here is a Call to Patients to Step Up:  If you want your physician&#8217;s respect, if you want to be healthy rather than assured that you are &#8220;ok&#8221; when you are not, YOU, the PATIENT, has to change, too.  </p>
<p>Docs on The Health Care Blog are bitter about sharing records with patients because 1) there is no profit in it; and 2) their experience of patients (which they perpetuate through their own Dr. Knows All protocol) is that patients are passive, uneducated and self indulgent. </p>
<p>As a teacher, I often feel the same way:  Why should I put more energy into a student than the student or family does themselves?    </p>
<p>The good news:  From my end, I can encourage a new generation of students to invest in literacy in order to save their own lives and those of their loved ones.  Here, they will have no choice.  The American health care system is broken and will not be fixed in the near future.  In our area, which has a dearth of specialists as well as pcps, if you don&#8217;t get educated, you can die.  </p>
<p>Participatory Medicine means that BOTH SIDES CHANGE.  I teach in a distressed economic area where kids&#8217; main snacks at school remain Cheetos &amp; Coke, despite all of the health care warnings plastered everywhere (at taxpayer expense) about the risks of childhood obesity.</p>
<p>GOOD COMMUNICATION IS GOOD MEDICINE</p>
<p>One solution is for physicians to come out from behind the professional aura of Rational, Emotionless Scientist.  Find a site to Express frustrations in a way that their patients can HEAR.  Instead, patients often get the body language, the curt attitude, etc. that implies rather than states that they are less than nothing and the unspoken thought: &#8220;Why should I hand over test reports if you are too lazy or uneducated to decipher them on your own?  Take the pill and leave.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hoch</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-4818</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-4818</guid>
		<description>Dave, 
Wonderful post, and I greatly appreciate both you and Charlie Smith writing about this book/review. These ideas can not get enough attention, (and I mean that in a less positive way than you think). 

I suspect that I&quot;m pretty much an average doc, not the smartest, not the dullest. BUT, one thing I somehow understood better than my colleagues at an early stage in my career was that I can not know everything. I can only try to find the best guidance for my patients, and to present it to them in a way that they can understand. That leaves pretty much everything else up to them. 

But as your own run down of your &quot;adherence&quot; to what you know to be important demonstrates, we all make choices as patients that are not in our best interests. Chances are, a lot of people reading this post are overweight, some smoke, many drink more than is healthy. Almost none get enough exercise, and definitely get too little sunlight/vit D. In my own sub specialty, the vast majority of my patients with poorly controlled epilepsy drive, when I&#039;ve pointed out that state law says they must turn in their licenses. Many miss medications regularly, do not get enough sleep, and lie to their employer about their condition. 

Recently, the Supreme Judicial Court in Massachusetts LOWERED the bar for holding practitioners responsible for lots of this behavior. When I&#039;ve held focus groups of my patients, not just my e-patients, I find that the former make up the vast majority of my panel, and they are NOT INTERESTED in taking an active role in their care. They do not want to use the same technologies with providers that they use with friends and even retail business. 

Many providers who have embraced e-patients find it much more fun and rewarding, but there are not enough of them. A friend decided he&#039;s only take on patients who are e-patients and found that he had a tiny, concierge practice. So, please, by all means write on this topic, shout it from every hill if you have to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,<br />
Wonderful post, and I greatly appreciate both you and Charlie Smith writing about this book/review. These ideas can not get enough attention, (and I mean that in a less positive way than you think). </p>
<p>I suspect that I&#8221;m pretty much an average doc, not the smartest, not the dullest. BUT, one thing I somehow understood better than my colleagues at an early stage in my career was that I can not know everything. I can only try to find the best guidance for my patients, and to present it to them in a way that they can understand. That leaves pretty much everything else up to them. </p>
<p>But as your own run down of your &#8220;adherence&#8221; to what you know to be important demonstrates, we all make choices as patients that are not in our best interests. Chances are, a lot of people reading this post are overweight, some smoke, many drink more than is healthy. Almost none get enough exercise, and definitely get too little sunlight/vit D. In my own sub specialty, the vast majority of my patients with poorly controlled epilepsy drive, when I&#8217;ve pointed out that state law says they must turn in their licenses. Many miss medications regularly, do not get enough sleep, and lie to their employer about their condition. </p>
<p>Recently, the Supreme Judicial Court in Massachusetts LOWERED the bar for holding practitioners responsible for lots of this behavior. When I&#8217;ve held focus groups of my patients, not just my e-patients, I find that the former make up the vast majority of my panel, and they are NOT INTERESTED in taking an active role in their care. They do not want to use the same technologies with providers that they use with friends and even retail business. </p>
<p>Many providers who have embraced e-patients find it much more fun and rewarding, but there are not enough of them. A friend decided he&#8217;s only take on patients who are e-patients and found that he had a tiny, concierge practice. So, please, by all means write on this topic, shout it from every hill if you have to.</p>
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		<title>By: Govindan</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-4816</link>
		<dc:creator>Govindan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-4816</guid>
		<description>Nice article with insights of patient &amp; physician relation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article with insights of patient &amp; physician relation.</p>
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		<title>By: e-Patient Dave</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-4522</link>
		<dc:creator>e-Patient Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-4522</guid>
		<description>I just ran across one of my first posts ever on this blog, &lt;a href=&quot;http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/03/when-the-patient-is-a-yahoo.html&quot; target=&quot;epd&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;When the Patient is a Yahoo&lt;/a&gt;. It was on a different subject but it ended up in a similar place.

It&#039;s increasingly clear that the unifying thread in this movement is partnership, collaboration, what we&#039;re calling participatory medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just ran across one of my first posts ever on this blog, <a href="http://e-patients.net/archives/2008/03/when-the-patient-is-a-yahoo.html" target="epd" rel="nofollow">When the Patient is a Yahoo</a>. It was on a different subject but it ended up in a similar place.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s increasingly clear that the unifying thread in this movement is partnership, collaboration, what we&#8217;re calling participatory medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: SusannahFox</title>
		<link>http://e-patients.net/archives/2009/01/embrace-knowledge-symmetry.html/comment-page-1#comment-50209</link>
		<dc:creator>SusannahFox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-patients.net/?p=1103#comment-50209</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Reading @ePatientDave&#039;s great post on why people need to &quot;embrace knowledge symmetry&quot; in medicine http://is.gd/f3Hs&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Reading @ePatientDave&#8217;s great post on why people need to &#8220;embrace knowledge symmetry&#8221; in medicine <a href="http://is.gd/f3Hs" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/f3Hs</a></span></span></span></p>
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